"ANU were depicted accurately as small 'self-aware' (even Impish / Mischevious at times - see Mare Zupa paintings) living beings: move thru space by directing the 'jelly fish' suction of their imploding heart. (To have will and to fly both are VOLO / VOLITION / VOLUTION - to enter the V vortex... also 'five-ness' pent embedding. To create vortex is to 'have' direction.)

"Psi-Perception of Quarks" book by physicist Phillips - UK / Theosophic Press - reveals clairvoyant perception of ANU fit and added visual richness to contemporary physics. (3 anu per quark - see pic). An example of Spiritual vision so well focused as to embed usefully into the most shareable language on the planet.(physics and science).

This article is about the fractionation of human understanding which happens when many wisdom traditions each invent their own word for LIFE-FORCE / SPIRIT / CHARGE. (table below). In order to mature to the point of using the leverage of mind upon waves, clearly the need is to synthesize a pure (& therefore inphiknitly shareable) principle - which is simply the symmetry of a sequence of turns of mind (alphabet)- in order to see how we get to steer the tornado. Otherwise our children are left with the impression that a dozen different wisdom traditions (one of them is physics) each are describing a SEPARATE (and therefore very schizophrenic) reality.

What I am suggesting with the table below, is that physics can usefully add rigor and resolution to each wisdom tradition by completing their descriptions of life force with the unifying language of measureable charge and the charge density which results from the hygiene of acheiving embedding / self-similarity. (Reference 1: 'All Human Interactions are about CHARGE' - and "LIFE FORCE is the ability to fractally attract and self-organize CHARGE"). And further that physics as a pure language of wave symmetry can grow to more accurately teach our children as waves to embed themselves more immortally and blissfully by seeing the agreement and oneness that exists between virtually all wisdom traditions... This as each finally agree that the ultimate language to create fusion of mind(s) is the pure language of wave symmetry sustained by the slip-(k)not - self-similarity. '

Microvita theory is right about many per atom.. we know how many..see top pic 3 anu per quark., nested in hydrogen for example.. physics research on the clairvoyance by Phillips: Psi Perception of Quarks, book.

--

We confuse ourselves with names, when we forget that a name is merely a waveguide (lens) to steer waves into a stable enough pattern to EMBED in (to become the object to which we point).

1. Origin of Alphabets is ONLY the symmetry of donut waves. (symbols make object when their wave shape embeds: therefore PHI / Golden Ratio is the most powerful symbol maker & origin of Alphabets)

2. Alphabet as a sound hologram = inventory of the envelope ratio (plicative) limits defined by the ratio of the length of the vocal chords to the oral cavity: SANSKRIT.

3. Alphabet as sonic hologram picture which MATCHES the optical hologram.

4. Alphabet (Sumerian) as the optical wave guide to focus laser in such a way as to MAKE biology (George Merkel MD Microscopist: Sumerian Elixir et al).

With this in mind - let us notice the problem of the multiplicity of the names for spirit and life - and how we can be nourished by PURE PRINCIPLE instead of fractionating confusion.

Let us ask the question: could it be that there are many different elephants for the ants to crawl over, OR - do we happen to agree with Christ and Einstein that our field is UNIFIED - and THEREFORE that there is only one elephant for all these ants to crawl over, and that ultimately all their perspectives must be consumed into ONE!?!?!

If this is so, then a unified field made of waves in a universal compressible medium - means that the ONLY ULTIMATE definition of LIFE FORCE would be a simple but totally resolved (detailed) description of the SYMMETRY OF HOW WAVES TURN IN SUCH A WAY AS TO MAKE LIFE (recur sustainably/ infinite recusion).

So WHY did each new spiritual visionary who glimpsed the essence of what makes life NEED to each time invent a new word - and thus CONFUSE us? The reason is simple, until the pure principle is understood - we have the TOWER (MAGDALA) of B'aa b-el. The ultimate language for pure principle is the pure symmetry of waves - something like the skill to love which requires the measureable electrical symmetry skill to turn inside out / recur.

Each tradition had it's own separate (and therefore divisive) language for life force, because two ideas which are ONE were both NOT understood. That is - the pure principle of what language is (symmetry map to waves becoming recursive) and the pure principle of what life is (symmetry map to waves becoming recursive).

Understanding the univeral symmetry language of reciprocal charge solves this fractionation of both language and culture. Capacitive charge is persuasive in its ability to orient liquid into crystal geometrized by the pervasive field effect. That is why the voltage gradient (related to the 'current of injury') at the site of the wound determines the rate of healing. ("Body Electric" by Robert O. Becker).

This is why the shape of the charge field orients the light in the Kirlian photograph to map life force, and orients the growth space and direction as liquid is magnetized into crystal for life growth. Essentially, and clearly, capacitive density is both the definition of life force, and the physics of astrology. The reason why charge density predicts life force is because 1., charge is measureably superluminal and therefore able to acheive the dense multiple-connectedness required to synchronize the genetic recursive wave communion we call life , and 2, that con-cresence of wave nesting produces the necessary synchronization of fields to align living biology to the faster than light metabolism required to choreograph biology.

So better understanding the living physics of CHARGE - let us try to integrate what we know of diverse wisdom traditions to create a whole and vibrant personal AND practical understanding of how to create life force - as ONE unfied collective mind. (L'esprit de COEUR).

postscript: Transcript of Dan Winter video produced by Marc K on Microvita:

"17 september 2001-09-17 Hi, I am Dan Winter and this little video segment is about whether the living cell squirts or emits a field effect or presence that should be called either a microvita or a orgone or a somatid or in rod-theory or is it an ultraviolet bubble or is it the blue fire of tantra and kundallini? All of these languages which we had over the years describe what biology might squeeze out by compressing properly needs rigor, needs clarity, needs a factual application. It is really quite useful to have the conversation to have a name to this presence of a field effect that appears to be self organising. Mathematically Von Neuman called it the selfreproducing automata.

We believe we now have the theory for why this compression becomes self organising: we think it has to do with the nature of implosion. When we look at a model of how waves might converge non-destructively, based on the pentagonal symmetry of all of biology and DNA, called the dodecahedron, we think we have a clue of the nature of perfect infinite compression, which was Einstein's missing link to his theory of gravity and the unified field. What we think happens is, that when waves converge non-destructively by adding and multiplying by golden mean ratio, they implode in such a way that all wavelength, because they can nest constructively by golden ratio, there is no destructive interference.

For example when Schauberger said, 'my water vortex is about to become a generator for power, voltage out of gravity', the moment when it was about to happen was when he could measure the water getting colder. Clearly when the vortex loses destructive interference and gets colder, it is imploding. We believe that that is a moment of self organisation. A moment when wave effects nest in such a way that they appear to become self-steering. So we learned from tools for measuring that, based on this Heartlink technology here, where when we spectrum analyse a persons heart, going into the feeling of love, then we see a particular geometry of harmonic cascades, when the intervals between contained harmonics become a whole multiple of the golden mean ratio, then what we belief is happening is, the electrical field, around the heart, around the EKG has imploded. It has become selforganising.

Another example would be, when the volume harmonics of the stock market from moment to moment begin to oscillate by their log multiple of golden mean ratio, called Practor or Elliot wave, it appears the next move is then predictable. We believe that this extrapolates to mean that we have a theory of selforganisation in general among waves. That is the only path out of chaos is perfect embedding or nesting or fractallity based on perfect compression. So where does all this get practical? Where is gets practical is, - let's take the microvita conversation - is this mythology about this kind of blue fire ultraviolet bubble around living cells - it is really quite useful, there have been many names for this in history for this phenomenon, because light obviously goes to harmonic multiples before it lands with enough inertia to be called mass. And those other layers, whether you call them etheric body or harmonic multiples of the speed of light, or an ultraviolet shadow, or blue fire or microvita, the name does not matter much, what matters is the hygiene and the skill to make that field effect selfsustaining. Because it would appear that biology, DNA, genes and living cells are quite aware that they are mortal. That is, condemned to die, unless they can sustain that tornado through the speed of light.

So what appears to be the case is, we can have all the instruments in the world that will measure when the DNA goes superluminal, - and we have measured that - and when the living cell makes an ultraviolet cloud at the moment of miosis and mitosis, - and we have measured that - and when the EKG implodes, all these measurements are quite fine, but where they translate into something very practical is when they teach us the hygiene to go through the speed of light ourselves in our very DNA.

My contention is that the experience of dying, which only becomes necessary when we store memories that are unsharable, and therefore uncompressible. The experience of dying is an example of compression in that DNA is a device for squeezing charge through the speed of light, necessary to make the implosion, or fractallity of capacitors, which we call gravity. So DNA is a device for making the gravity to steer stars. How about that for new information? Maybe this means that the hygiene to make your DNA ignite and be on fire, is the ultimate moral lesson of all these stories about microvita and ultraviolet cocooning and blue fire tantra - if this is foreplay, we're in trouble - maybe the issue is, 'come on baby, light my fire!' How do you ignite the fire, the implosion in your own DNA. Clearly is has to do with passion, is has to do with compassion, is has to do with compression, and it has to do with the hygiene which makes lifeforce maximized. Obviously life food, life springwater, living in a place where magnetism is compressible, fractal, like in the centre of a tree, the centre of a den or the centre of a cave.

That kind of place we call sacred, we now understand what it means. It is a place where compression is successful. So my suggestion is, yes, we need the language of measurement to refine the conversations about microvita, and orgone and blue fire and cocoons, but more then that we need to translate the language of measurement into a hygiene. The hygiene will translate into life choices we make to maximize the lifeforce in our own body. When you feel that little burning tingling on the top of your head and you realize that your own DNA has decided it want to go somewhere, my suggestion is, the direction it is going is, in the compression wave, into the gravity centroid at the heart of the sun. And that will be the subject of our next conversation, which will be, how we inhabit the sun to steer our way into stars and why that is the secret of how soulgroups survive and live for ever. So until then, thank you and thank you Marc for making this possible. --------- "

------------------------------------------------------------------------

   3 of 51   

  Subj:   
Update on Brahma Cakra and MV No 2

  Date:   
Sun, 28 Jul 2002 05:52:50 +0800

  From:   
"Intuition List" <intuition_list@skyinet.net>

  To:   
"Intuition List" <intuition_list@skyinet.net>
  Sent from the Internet (Details)
                ___
Ba'Ba'   <||<||
Post-No.: Intuition List--2002-07-27/173
Subject.:  Update on Brahma Cakra and MV No 2
 
Quote for the Day>
"Brahma Cakra is the most universal way to describe how schizophrenia is part and parcel of creation as we know it. It first facilitates a temptingly charismatic "pointe" and hopefully then generates enough frustration to look out for a less schizophrenic alternative."- Pankaj
 
SUMMARY> 
1.  Viveka comments on relation of gravity in BC to Dan Winters ideas
2. Tiki shares some ideas and quotes on Time, Space and Person
 
Interesting URL: http://ncatark.uark.edu/~steved/sarkar-ag.html  Farming the Future:  Sarkar's Unique Contributions to Agriculture, by Satyaki
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
>From: Viveka  Richard@post.pl > 
 
I want to express my appreciation for Pankaj's efforts to combine the concepts of Brahmacakra and microvita with Dan Winter's ideas.
My comments below are meant to help facilitate this integrative process, but this integrative process should be done without injustice to either approach.
 
1) Pankaj wrote>
"The problem is: it does not explain where gravity comes from, and it does not explain how Ba?ba? could talk about "living celestial bodies" (as "living" means, it should be in prati-saincara)."
 
Viveka>
 Self-organizing is not the same as living or self-aware.   Atoms that form from the effect of nuclear and electro-magnetic forces among elementary physical particles can be said to be self-organizing. Stars that form due to gravitational attraction within promordial gas clouds and then ignite and shine due to their nuclear forces can also be said to be self-organizing. But neither atoms nor stars are individually alive, aware or conscious, though they are part of the Cosmic Mind or Macrocosm. Their life is the cosmic life of the Macrocosm as a whole . Stars are not individual living beings in the same way that microvita, plants, animals and humans are individual living beings or jiivas. The first stars are in saincara. "Living" as used by Baba in the case of individual stars should be understood as being functioning and not burned out, as opposed to 'dead' and 'dying' stars whose nuclear fuel is exhausted or nearly so. Stars, as inanimate beings, have neither awareness nor self-awareness:   Baba: "The major difference between animate beings and inanimate beings is that animate beings have an existential feeling whereas inanimate beings do not. An inanimate piece of iron and a grain of sand are not aware of their existence, but an undeveloped living creature like an earthworm has self-awareness. The mighty Himalayas do not know that they exist, but for a tiny fly existence is quite real." 
 
What is true of the Himalayas about lack of self-awareness is certainly true for stars also. Some people like Alice Bailey associate awareness with  stars, galaxies etc. If this has any truth, it is because human beings evolved in pratisaincara have associated their expanded minds with stars or galaxies, not that the stars and galaxies have individual self-awareness in the absence of evolved human minds.
 
 
 
2) Pankaj wrote>
"S-1: the common explanation is: gravity (such a explained by Isaac Newton). This is the mass-implosive interpretation of saincara. This interpretation is mostly used in the naive explanation of Brahma Cakra, and places celestial bodies completely in saincara."
Viveka>
Brahmacakra is a metaphysical theory and should not be equated with a physical theory like Newtonian gravity or Einsteinian gravity or quantum theory. Every physical theory has an underlying metaphysical theory, either stated or implied. For example, Newton believed in absolute space and absolute time and that God set the universe in motion like a clockmaker winding up a mechanical clock and letting it run by itself, and perhaps intervening to correct the clockwork-universe from time to time. Einstein believed in relative space and time and that God does not 'play' dice with the universe and that an action cannot propagate its effects at a speed greater that the speed of light. Quantum theory (which Einstein didn't like) rejects causality of quantum events and indicates that events can be correlated at speeds much greater than the speed of light. Brahmacakra supports both wave theory and causality and so a new scientific causal wave theory is necessary if Brahmacakra is to become the metaphysical theory behind future scientific theories.  What is Dan Winter's metaphysical theory? It seems to be that geometrical or mathematical forms based on PHI (as well as PI) underly physical reality and individual life forms. His theory could be called micro-PHI-ta theory. Is this compatible with Brahmacakra? Both PHI and PI help to explain and predict different aspects of the natural world. As such they should be compatible with Brahmacakra which the rhythmic play of Prakrti on Purusa.
     "Microvita" is a scientific concept which has not been proved scientifically. It is not a metaphysical concept any more than "electron" is a metaphysical concept. No one has seen an electron, but its existence is considered to be scientifically established. But only its effects are experimentally observed. "Mind" is also scientific concept (since its action supposedly causes observable physical movements due to the action of the nervous system of the brain and body) but which has also not been proved scientifically due to its lack of physical properties. 
     What does it mean that microvita are created "in" pratisaincara? It means that they are part of the process of crude solid matter transforming itself stagewise into pure consciousness through the media of living beings and unit minds. If some microvita were also created "in" saincara, it would mean that they were part of the process of pure consciousness transforming itself stagewise into crude solid matter.  So far there is no need to invoke microvita in the saincara process, since a consisent description of Brahmacakra with microvita created only in pratisaincara seems more consistent with what Baba said about the creation of microvita, as well as being not only scientifically more plausable but also more likely to lead to practical results.
     No matter how much scientific understanding advances, it will never replace the need for metaphysical theories like Brahmacakra which go beyond physical or mental science but which can be consistent with science. A newer metaphysical theory is desirable when a previously accepted metaphysical theory loses its practical utility for providing human beings with meaning and direction in their lives.
 
 
3)  Pankaj wrote>
 "Hence, it is not the right approach anymore to say celestial bodies exist only in saincara. They exist in saincara and pratisaincara as well."
 
Viveka>
Saincara and pratisaincara cannot be both occurring to the same object at the same time. Saincara represents crudification in the initial phase of Brahmacakra and pratisaincara represents reduction of crudity in the returning phase Brahmacakra. For one object to be part of both at the same time would be like a car travelling in two opposite directions at the same time. So Pankaj can only be correct here if he is talking about celestial bodies at two different evolutionary stages--when they first evolve in saincara, and later when they are filled with microvita evolved in pratisaincara and are part of pratisaincara. Saincara and pratisaincara are however both going on in the universe at the same time in different places. Baba: "Perhaps you remember that I said that there won't be any thermal death of the universe, there won't be any pralaya, there won't be any kyamat (?), the universe will remain forever. In certain portions there will be introvert, in certain portions there will be extrovert, in certain portions there will be jadasphota, in certain portions there will be manasasphota, in certain portions there will be caetanasphota, but the universe will remain." -- THE UNIVERSAL MAN AND THE TRANSCENDENTAL ENTITY
 
 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
>From: Tiki < gayatrii2000@hotmail.com >
 
Here are some quotes on what Baba says about time, space and person which as we know start functioning at Shambhuliunga. From AM Ideology and Way of Life Pt 12 pgs 730-731. On the latter page the word "abstract" is used. Hence this is not a new microvita concept.
"In this universe nothing can stop moving: absolute pause or absolute speed simply do not exist. Pause and speed are relative. the cessation of movement is contrary to the principle of relativity, because between these two stages the relative factors (i.e. time, place and person) are ever-active. IT IS THESE FACTORS WHICH CAUSE ONE STAGE TO BE CONVERTED INTO A SUBSEQUENT STAGE. tHIS IS HOW THE FLOW OF CREATION PROCEEDS IN MATTER, IN MIND AND IN CONSCIOUSNESS. wHEN MOVEMENT REACHES THE POINT OF MAXIMUM CRUDIFICATION (solid factor), IT IS GIVEN A SEVERE JOLT BY THE RELATIVE FACTORS."
"The nature of time, space and person is such taht when they work on a subtle level they automatically work in a subtle manner. In the subtlest stage, space is not like this terrestial earth, time is not like the nads of a watch, and person is not like the human form as we know it. Rather in that stage teh relative factors assume immense proportions: sapce is the vast spatial expression which even accomodates Consciousness; time becomes capable of reckoning the Cosmic Mind, and person. In a well-ordered environment of time, space and person, the finite objects maintain closest link with Parama Purus'a."
It is important not to just discuss concepts from the materialistic level of lower Pratisaincara simply because this is the domain of materialistic science. Baba's concepts must be discussed at all levels of Brahmacakra because this is the way in which He discusses them.
Tiki
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

<<add on>>
Tiki, do you have any idea what Ba'Ba' is talking about here as "three realms of time"? turiiya
 
"As the diverse forms of all the fundamental factors exist within the three realms of time, the Macrocosm knows them all. And that which still exists as the subtle Macrocosmic mind-stuff, that which as not yet taken the form of cruder mind-stuff, He Knows, for He is fully aware of the budding state of the dormant sam'ska'ras"
Paos'ii Pu'rn'ima' 1959, Darbhaga, Bihar
Subha's'ita Sam'graha Part 7
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dan wrote>:
"more immortally "

Frank>
ah... let's become a little immortal now... :-)

Dan>
We confuse ourselves with names, when we forget that a name is merely a waveguide (lens) to steer waves into a stable enough pattern to EMBED in (to become the object to which we point).

Frank>
I like the "become" here. Tantra says, as you think so you become. Tantra teaches the hygiene (high gene) and technique to become one with the "goal", that is, simply One. Not just to "understand" It. For smaller objects, like a teaspoon, first we become
it ("citta"), later we say "I" ("mahat") "did see" ("aham") "it" ("citta" or "ectoplasm") (well, spiritual philosophy simply includes
and denominates schizofrenia as the modus vivendi of Creation AND freely shows the way out - a benevolent astral milkhouse
to create a plot for those lacking the real science of Peace? , or selling the way out is the turn it took in priest cult). The Tantric personal mantra received within initiation spirit (ah... using the same philosophy) does cohere the mind from scizofrenia back
to normal (or abnormal?) which is called one-ness, or Nirguna. Opposed to Saguna, which however was never mentioned
"schizofrenia". Think Dan wants to say the LIFE-force that created the stars is OURS.

Dan>
Is this the face of life force taking 'shape'

Frank>
(at least "a" face - question: is their any pure principle evident especially in somatide cycle?).
I'd like to over-specify your note here: Is this the face of life force expressing among particles? (notably atoms and
molecules) while the same (agreed!) life-forces that sculpted those same atoms and molecules exist assumingly
(clearvoyantly) below that microscopic event-horizon. This is the bluntly practical face of life-force playing in matter
(in responsive matter - carbonic atoms forming pencils are not hosting life in my country, though some manuscripts
on these topics seem to suggest otherwise). Without schizofrenia is there nothing more to talk about...? or in pure
math? Ok, Dan, I'll drop my "particles" if you can prove that chaos and/or (super)complexity do NOT excape math
(like they do escape physics I would say). Symmetry-operations are fascilitating Creation, right, but is a "facilitation"-
language alone sufficient? For now I say pure principle is fascilitating an out-of-control situation (so that God can
really enjoy His Creation and surprise Himself), AND pure principle is not the CAUSE, but the REASON that
chaos reconciles... out of its own vertile soil. This is LIFE, or LIFE-FORCE sculpting and inhabiting matter, or
implosion-symmetry embedding (in) complexity (the way to escape from blind law or "Prakrtii"). Would you say
this is particularly visible in somatid cycle? I can understand this in the sense that somatid-cycle is the essential
emerging cycle / eco-oscillator based upon implosion symmetry-in-matter (in-carna).


Dan>
Ananda Marge saying millions of 'microvita'= 1 carbon - ignore detailed contemporary sub-atomic
symmetry mapping) -

Frank>
No, no, the millions of pixel (position / color annotations) creating a picto-plasmic image on your monitor (or: abstract
expressing in responsive matter - not complexity but electronics though) does not at all ignore, rather UTILISES the
grid symmetry. We can call this "mutual concommittance" [Sarkar] (not firm causal bondage) an instance (or facility or
inborn quality) of pure principle as well, if you like. From a bit different angle Sarkar says: "Shaktih sa Shivasya Shaktih".
"Shakti" is the Force of "Shiva" - there is no nominal difference, but do note that facilitated chaos is damned real chaos never-
theless. I agree that the (hypothetical) full-implosive universe is our ultimate (wave) guide in the science of Peace, but less
in the science of Creation. Microvitum is the unitary harmonic registration of (multilateral) mutual concommittance. Apparently
(following Sarkars intuitive suggestions) the cosm allows this perspective, while fully recognizing, even utilising symmetry-
operations at the same time.


Dan>
symbols make object when their wave shape embeds

... in Nature, (creating cakras), in Consensus, or in universal principle, yes, and this going on all the time we (they) call it "mind",
no? (Cosmic symbols embedding to be Cosmic objects... going on all the time... Cosmic Mind!). Symbols-not-yet-embedded are
they molded in waves, or Abstract? Plato's "Object-an-sich"? With pure principle Alone (not-yet-having-facilitated-chaos or so)
there is no dis-embedding, somehow I get a sense there is in fact nothing... I think this is really about our, or rather cosmic
Intention, abstract symbols tested out, self-embedding strategies creating the shape of Life. Better is to say, symbols make entity
when their wave shape embeds. Only we turn symbols into teaspoons. In Tantra this is "ota / prota yoga". "Ota-yoga" with the whole
of Creation, "prota-yoga" with an atom, or a butterfly. The Cosm does not remember the shape of a teaspoon, inside a teaspoon
Shiiva and Shaktii are not very happy with eachother, or, the collective atoms are NOT embedded, this is called "Fundamental
Factor", floating loose, not anchored in microvita. So here, OUR mind is(:) flipping this symbol into object. The role of mind among waves nicely avoids silly cognition theories.


Dan (regarding microvita)>
-Tendancy to lead to particle thinking instead of the mindful role in the inertia it takes to move a wave packet..
Frank>
Yes, this is only too evidently true, insofar the microvita themselves are concerned. This is not what we want, but we do want to
see and measure an entity existing "on the silver lining between matter and abstract [Sarkar]. Some crucial points about microvita
I feel you have not assimilated (or more likely not seen) - don't be toooo quick and easy :-). I feel "microvita" does not one-to-one
fit in your Life-Force list, but it does fit into your Life-Force-Organising list... which appears to be the same list. The specialties
attributed to microvita by Sarkar hint at a far subtler entity than somatides alone, though somatides could (like "real" virus) be
a form of microvitum (essentially implosive material entity, thus essential morphogenetic entity).


Dan (regarding microvita)>
Slip knot of capacitance self organized by recursion to the point of self direction. (charge implosion).

Frank>
Ah... some particle thinking in disguise here... ?:-). I like it except for the slip-knot-thingy. DNA is not a slip-know either, but it
may be a big (unmoveable) microvitum, pivoting the Macrocosm upon itself creating a semblance of biological life. Zooming
further down the cascade of Life, microvita steering the Macrocosm creating a semblance of atoms. Now it is, seeking the proper
microvitoscope.

Dan>
Naming your health problem negative microvita was as marginally useful as the shaman telling you your disease was bad spirits.

Frank>
Well, making nonsense measurable, consensus will make it real!!! Rather, the play of mutual concommittance (no firm cause /
result) between perception and consensus (object vs. embedding) we call: "conception in the form of perception" [Sarkar], or
simply: Reality. This is how the universe keeps her health. Funny still that this may assume a more scientific "particle"-form
called micro-vitum.


Summarizing, waiting for the pure principle of: chaos and of: somatides and/or microvita, and some nice math and a good
microscope to start with.

Dan - take care, looking forward & thanks for jumping in!

Namaskar didi,
thank you for your comments. Don't be surprised, the word "microvita" was expected to be used as a bumper-
sticker. Besides the points you already mentioned, the article as a whole reads just silly and childish. It
might be that this is one of Mr. Richardsons earlier writings, but I'm not so sure as a matter of fact. In Mr.
Richardsons interpretation, the word "Microvita" can be replaced by virtually any popular term for "good" or
"bad" energy. Mr. Richardson analyses the subject in terms of highschool physics and simplistic psychology
and likes to go public with that. By his papers he could have non-introduced readers easily digesting his ideas.
No need to mention that the original subject is of a different significance. Also the common understanding is
evolving, shaded and refined, and, although far from a flawless presentation, becoming more and more shareable.
It is not exactly "good news" that this is published, in Washington DC notably. The original spirit of Sarkars work
will however find its way into the scientific community and to the public, quite likely without the need for a bumper-
sticker.

Pankaj / Netherlands
----- Original Message -----

From: "Didi"
Organization: Proutist Universal Global Office, Copenhagen, Denmark
Reply-To: "Didi"
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 17:35:42 -0400
To: <globe-l@prout.org>
Subject: >prOut< Re: Microvita - good news report

Namaskar,
I am sorry to point out that the article itself, even though written by a
PhD-holder, says things that are contradictory to Ba'ba's original words (as
found in the "Microvita in a nutshell").
For example, that microvita are smaller than anything known (according to
Ba'ba', they vary in size, and some DO come within the range of a highly
developed microscope) including viruses (where, in Ba'ba's words, the
microvita of crude order, visible by a microscope ARE nowdays called
viruses... even though He considers that a rather vague term); that they are
positive or negative (when Ba'ba' says that they are neither positive or
negative, but according to their influence, we consider them as such),...
I believe it would be far better to arrange publishing of Ba'ba's article
(His introductory discourse "Microvitum - the mysterious emanation of Cosmic
Factor" is a very nice piece from scientific, pshychological or linguistic
point) rather than something misleading like in this case.
Although Mr Richardson may have a PhD (in physics), that doesn't mean that
he either understands microvita (even on a verbal level) or is able to
present it well.

With best wishes to all,
Didi

----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Goldberg <randygol@earthlink.net>
To: proutglobelist <globe-l@prout.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:37 PM
Subject: >prOut< Microvita- good news report

>
> Namaskar,
> I have been able to get an article on Microvita published in a major
> magazine called Pathways. They distribute 40,000 copies for free in the
> Washington DC area. Maybe you can see if you submit the article to similar
> magazines in your area.
> BNK,
> Raghava
>
> Microvita, -Biology and Cosmic will
> By Richard Richardson
>
> Biologists don't have a good understanding about the nature
> of life and the cause of evolution. The materialistic view
> of life is that things just happen by chance, that atoms
> just come together by chance to form living beings, from
> simpler to more complex chemical combinations. The existence
> of life and human beings can be just a "lucky accident" in
> this universe. But the view in Yoga is that there are no
> accidents. Everything is happening according to the cosmic
> will. This still leaves the question of exactly how life
> comes into existence. And how does it evolve, if it is not
> by chance? Another way to ask this is "How does the cosmic
> will create and evolve life?"
> One answer was proposed in 1986, through the concept of
> microvita. Microvita were described by P.R. Sarkar as very
> small living beings. They are smaller than any atom,
> electron or proton. And these microvita are created by the
> cosmic intelligence or the cosmic mind. The work of these
> microvita is to organise and evolve individual lives and
> minds in the universe. These microvita have certain physical
> qualities. The simplest variety move through physical space.
> They have different wavelengths and vibrations. But they
> carry a certain mental force and information as well. It
> means they are conscious living beings, thought smaller than
> any known physical particle. Scientists have not discovered
> these microvita yet in their physical laboratories. Now it
> is a new scientific idea, and later it can be tested in the
> laboratory.
> In science, often an idea comes first, and later it is
> scientifically demonstrated in the laboratory. For example,
> the Greeks were talking about atoms (meaning "indivisible")
> about two thousand five hundred years ago. But it was only
> about 100 years ago that the existence of atoms was actually
> demonstrated scientifically in the laboratory (though later
> it was shown that they were not indivisible.) In another
> example, a physicist proposed about 30 years ago that
> protons and neutrons and other heavy elementary nuclear
> particles are made up of smaller particles called quarks.
> During the past 20 years those quarks have been demonstrated
> to exist through laboratory experiments. So science advances
> both through new concepts and new experiments.
> Microvita (in singular, microvitum) are described as living
> beings. They exist, they reproduce and they die. But they
> are smaller than any bacteria, virus or any physical
> particle. There are three main classes of microvita. The
> first kind move more in the physical world. They are carried
> by different physical vibrations. Vibrations of sound and
> light can carry microvita. Or microvita can travel with the
> vibrations of smell, touch or taste. All the five physical
> vibrations can carry this type of microvita. For example,
> bio-dynamic agriculture talks about certain subtle energies
> coming from the moon or the sun, that help plants to grow.
> According to the microvita concept, this subtle energy is
> not just energy but it is also microvita carried by the
> light. So these microvita are travelling throughout the
> universe, carried by light waves and sound waves and other
> physical vibrations. Wherever they go in the universe, where
> conditions are right they create living bodies and minds.
> Microvita are the carries of life in the universe. This
> means that not only on the Earth but also in many places
> throughout the universe, living beings are evolving, growing
> and developing with the help of microvita. And these
> microvita are working according to the cosmic desire. The
> cosmic mind has created this physical universe. Then it
> creates microvita in order to evolve individual lives and
> minds.
> This first kind of microvita can be either positive or
> negative. Negative microvita carry disease vibrations. And
> positive microvita carry health-producing vibrations. What
> we call virus diseases are actually being caused by negative
> microvita, which are much small that physical viruses. And
> these negative microvita can actually travel through outer
> space, from one star to another, carrying different
> diseases. Certain virus diseases came to the Earth at
> different times. They did not exist on the Earth earlier.
> Many of these virus diseases were attracted from outer space
> and were carried by negative microvita. These negative
> microvita are attracted to negative physical or mental
> vibrations. Positive microvita are attracted by positive
> vibrations. After the first World War, there were millions
> of soldiers dead in Europe. All these dead bodies created a
> negative physical vibration, and according to P.R. Sarkar,
> negative microvita were attracted from others stars,
> creating the virus disease called the Spanish flu or
> influenza. That influenza then spread through other parts of
> Europe and millions of people died from it. This is one
> example of how negative microvita work.
> Some disease microvita can travel, carried only by the smell
> vibrations of the disease. Other negative microvita travel
> through forms or shapes. When you are sick your body has
> too many negative microvita. When you take normal allopathic
> medicines, these medicines suppress and concentrate the
> negative microvita causing the disease, but they don't kill
> these microvita. Later the negative microvita can become
> active in a more powerful way and can cause new and more
> serious diseases. This is what is happening today. Many
> diseases are being caused as a result of the medicines that
> people are getting for other diseases. But negative
> microvita can be defeated by positive microvita. The body
> has its own source of positive microvita and can get more
> from outside. Normally, this is how we get well--the
> positive microvita defeat the negative microvita.
> Homeopathic medicines stimulate the body's positive
> microvita, which fight the negative disease microvita.
> The second class of microvita acts more on the mental
> level. They carry ideas from one mind to another. If you get
> a new idea or if you hear of a new idea, that idea has come
> into your mind carried by microvita. Microvita enter your
> mind, vibrate it and create ideas in your mind. So if you
> can control these microvita, you can spread your ideas to
> many people. Microvita will help you to spread the ideas. If
> you have negative thinking, this will attract negative
> microvita to you. And your mind will become even more
> negative. If your mind is positive, if you are thinking in a
> positive way, your mind will attract more positive
> microvita. So your mind will become even more positive.
> One type of microvita in this group gives people the desire
> to get as much money as possible. They are called Yaksha
> microvita. When these microvita influence your mind, you can
> only think about getting more and more money, and you won't
> care where the money is coming from. You'll try to get the
> money by any means. Desires like this, strengthened by
> negative microvita, create all the different kinds of
> imperialism and exploitation in the world. People try to
> take wealth away from other people just because due to
> Yaksha microvita they have so much desire for money.
> Mental illnesses are also created by negative microvita.
> Different mental diseases like schizophrenia, severe mental
> depression, or suicidal desires are all caused by too many
> negative microvita. These negative microvita directly affect
> the five lower yogic chakras (the psychic centres in the
> body controlling different desires.) And because the chakras
> affect the mind, the negative microvita influence the mind
> indirectly. Negative microvita cannot enter the mind
> directly, but indirectly they affect the mind through the
> chakras. Again, the treatment for negative microvita is
> positive microvita. A person has to find a way to attract
> many positive microvita to fight the disease-causing
> negative microvita. You can get positive microvita from many
> different sources: from a good vegetarian diet, from good
> music, from association with good people, from reading good
> books that inspire you, and from meditation on a positive
> idea. It's a simple rule, anything that makes
> the mind positive is attracting positive microvita.
> Negative microvita have more of a physical character, while
> positive microvita are more mental in nature. Our bodies are
> filled with both positive and negative microvita, more or
> less in balance in a healthy individual. Positive microvita
> tend to concentrate in the upper chakras, which control more
> subtle feelings, And negative microvita concentrate more in
> the lower chakras, because the lower chakras are more
> associated with the physical world. We need negative
> microvita to keep connection with the physical world. So
> life requires a balance between positive and negative
> microvita. But if we get too many negative microvita we get
> sick or have other problems. Then we have to attract more
> positive microvita to fight these negative microvita. If we
> get an excess of positive microvita, this helps our mind and
> body to progress. But too many positive microvita at once
> may also be harmful.
> There is a third class of microvita which is the most
> subtle. These microvita carry subtle spiritual ideas and
> values. To experience this kind of microvita a person has to
> have a relatively high level of conceptual and spiritual
> development. Then they can catch these more spiritual
> microvita. There is one kind of microvita that carries
> musical ideas into the minds of people. So if a person is
> open to musical ideas, their minds will attract this type of
> subtle microvita. Other subtle microvita put ideas into your
> mind that help you to progress in your meditation. Maybe you
> are thinking, "Today I don't want to do meditation." This
> thought can be caused by negative microvita. Then another
> thought comes into your mind "Oh, I should meditate. I'm
> going to meditate." Here you are getting the help of
> positive microvita to encourage you to do meditation. So
> both positive and negative microvita are all around us, not
> only in human beings but also in animals and plants and the
> physical world. And they are working to help us progress and
> to keep a balance in the universe.
> In agriculture, microvita can play a important role.
> Certain fertilisers work because they carry more positive
> microvita. Biological fertilisers especially are strongly
> concentrated in positive microvita. And these microvita are
> transferred into the seeds and sprouts of growing plants to
> make them grow even better. You can even have two chemical
> fertiliser samples, with exactly the same chemical formula,
> coming from different places, where one sample contains more
> microvita and therefore is a better fertiliser than the
> other sample, which contains less microvita. Future
> agricultural scientists will study how many and which types
> of microvita are contained in different fertilisers.
> Even music can help plants grow more, because music also
> carries microvita. Some music carries more positive
> microvita and some carries more negative microvita. So you
> can even do experiments with plants by giving them different
> kinds of music and see which music they like.
> The subject of microvita is quite new, so more study and
> research are required to understand microvita better. By
> understanding microvita, many things can be explained that
> are not presently understood. So microvita are the way the
> cosmic mind maintains ecological balance in the body, the
> mind and the universe. If we can understand microvita, we
> can also help maintain the ecological balance in the world.
> Today the ecological balance is very disturbed as a result
> of too many negative microvita. The selfish minds of certain
> human beings have attracted many negative microvita and
> spread them into the society. Many dogmas have been spread
> in the society with the help of negative microvita. So those
> negative microvita can be fought with the help of positive
> microvita. And step by step our society and ecology have to
> be restored to a healthy state. We can do this if we get a
> good understanding of positive and negative microvita.
>
>

Special Request for Proofreading Microvita Article by Dan Winter

Dan Winter wrote>
Please preview (also intuition list if appropriate)
Microvita
Part of new article

http://www.goldenmean.info/namesforspirit

I am very open to ways which put a more positive spin on microvita...
Perhaps I have missed something..

(is anything measureable in microvita
Can negative microvita mean anything to a scientist..
Etc...

Thanks for your advance feedback
Before we share with implosiongroup 4000

Dan

Mayatiita writes>

Dear Friends,
since some time I am trying to discuss the microvita theories with Dan Winter. That is, I try to raise his interest for the subject, but he is critical. I lack some fundamental knowledge to attune my conversations so that Dan might see the importance (for him) of accepting microvita theory in his perspective. In many respects he relates it to other exisiting theories, and does not see why it would be a new and better alternative. This is a challenge to all of you, to place microvita theory in such perspective that he, as a scientist, wanting to have things measurable, can work with it. I know you can.
Recently he wrote a piece where he also includes some things about microvita. He does not yet have had the time to extensively study and read all of Baba's work on microvita, there is little time and much work. He asked me to inform us on the list of his new article and would appreciate it if you could proofread the parts on microvita and give feedback. You can send it to him either directly (lophi618@hotmail.com) or to the list or to Mayatiita (mkroeks@zonnet.nl). Enthousiastic people might like to call +31 6 13271004 (is mobile, but when you give your number, he'll call back)
I believe that Dan has clues for us we would like to absorb. And I also feel that Ananda Marga can provide certain practical things, noone else can. It is a mutual concomitance...
Love,
Mayatiita.

ba'ba'

Update on Brahma Cakra and Microvita

by Pankaj

After a little appreciated publication on microvita in a public magazine recently ("Pathways Magazine", Washington DC), it may be a good moment to share some recent ideas / interpretations. The purpose is to shed at least some light on the delicate subject, not meaning there is a complete "consensus" (which is not the case) but to give a few suggestions that can easily be understood and examined by everyone. Consensus may be not needed yet, anyway a lot of research will have to be done in the real laboratories, but it is important that our own ideas become more mature and coherent now.

After so many years since Ba'ba' introduced the subject, discussions are still going on how microvita relate to Brahma Cakra. In my opinion, this question itself is scientifically quite unimportant, yet, as Brahma Cakra is part of the fundamental philosophy of Ananda Marga, is it good to find the right orientation here.
To understand how microvita relate to Brahma Cakra, first the idea of Brahma Cakra itself needs a real thorough shake-up, which includes following. Then, it will be easier to see what the position and role of microvita is:

A. A more realistic understanding of the "implosion model" called "saincara":

The mass-implosive model of "saincara" is replaced by a "wave-implosive" model.

In Idea & Ideology, Ba'ba' explains "saincara", particular the creation of Fundamental Factors, as "a decrease of inter-atomic an intermolecular spaces". It is practically accurate to understand this as how great gas-clouds in space contract, collapse, and gradually turn into stars and planets.
Yet, a major confusion arises here which has a deep inapt of everything else in our understanding of Brahma Cakra. This is WHY there is a decrease of inter-atomic spaces, or simply, WHY saincara comes about. There are two explanations:
S-1: the common explanation is: gravity (such a explained by Isaac Newton). This is the mass-implosive interpretation of saincara. This interpretation is mostly used in the naive explanation of Brahma Cakra, and places celestial bodies completely in saincara. This we could call the "S-1" model. The problem is: it does not explain where gravity comes from, and it does not explain how Ba'ba' could talk about "living celestial bodies" (as "living" means, it should be in prati-saincara). Therefore, the more advanced understanding of saincara is:
S-2: the wave-implosive interpretation of saincara, which is based on the science of Sacred Geometry. It is know, and scientifically measurable, that waves ("kala") self-organise, which results in the creation of atoms and matter in general. Like all spiritual cults, also Ba'ba' says that this whole Creation is but an ocean of waves. But HOW waves transform into matter is never explained. This is the science of Sacred Geometry. And waves not only form matter, but also gravity and self-awareness. The details are too much here, shortly it comes down to waves self-organising just like water in your bathtub: when you pull the plug, a vortex is formed, forming a smaller and smaller form of the original "oceanic", wave, and this is roughly how atoms AND gravity are formed simultaneously. In the wave-implosive model, "Saincara" means: pulling the plug in the Cosmic Ocean, so that Parama Prakrtii is allowed to enter into creation. In the real universe, this process is going everywhere.

Now, the beauty of the wave-implosive model in Brahma Cakra is, that it clearly shows that our celestial world is not the result of blind forces alone ("Newtonian universe") but that all galaxies, all stars and all planets are meticulously sculpted in matter AND gravity by Supreme Consciousness Itself. Creation is an intelligent process, and this aspect cannot be understood in the old mass-implosive model.
Hence, it is not the right approach anymore to say celestial bodies exist only in saincara. They exist in saincara and pratisaincara as well. A clear evidence of the wave-implosive model is the so-called Earth Grid, roughly like the "nadis" in our body, but then on the surface of the planet. They match the Sacred Geometry ("dodecahedron" form) of how our planet is sculpted by waves. It is seen that volcanic ranges arise, and earthquakes break out especially along these lines.
The traditional understanding of "saincara" cannot explain the Earth-Grid, and many, many similar phenomena in this solar system.

Without going into further details here, the general idea is that there are what we may call "original creations" or "harmonic creations" which exist in saincara and pratisaincara simultaneously (or better: are expressions of the processes of both). These harmonic entities include galaxies, stars, planets, atoms, but also the entire Universe, and also cells en living beings. In short, everything that is created is essentially alive. So Life is NOT an option or a happy accident, it is the very cornerstone of Creation. Now THIS is the universe of Microvita also, which we can consider the "essential harmonic entity" or "essential microcosm". The "lower" portion of Brahma Cakra, including fundamental factors and ectoplasms respectively, is not in contradiction with the idea that everything is alive. It is just the objective, particularly relative perspective of Creation, which makes it possible to distinguish between "saincara" and "pratisaincara". Sacred Geometry alone can provide a complete cosmology, but does not account for the relative, objective world. Brahma Cakra alone is closer to our all-day experience, and helpful in sadhana, but is scientifically incomplete, if not right away flawed. Brahma Cakra is too much promoted as an objective "description" of Creations, which it is definitely not. We must now learn to work with a practical, happy blending of both to create a scientific environment where microvita can exist.

B. A better understanding of what happens at the nadir-point of Brahma Cakra

The common idea of "jadaspota OR life" is replaced by: "LIFE IS THE ONGOING EFFORT TO STILL AVOID JADASPOTHA"

The reason of this difference is the following. In the Sacred Geometry / wave implosive model of Creation, there is virtually no difference between cosmic life and biological life. We could say, cosmo-genesis and bio-genesis are one and the same process. To realise the (scientific) environment of microvita, we must follow this line, but also want to harmonise it with Brahma Cakra. Objectively, that is, in the common explanation of Brahma Cakra, it is suggested that when the "crudification" has reached its maximum, and there is no jadaspotha, life is created. In this mass-implosive perspective, life is completely disconnected from cosmic events, which I'd like to emphasise is pretty schizophrenic. This schizophrenic perspective should be replaced by seeing that very early on in saincara, already the proper gravitational/magnetic alignments are made that will finally solidify into a balanced environment, that is: a cradle for life. Biological life seamlessly exists within, being a part and parcel of, that very same wave-implosive model, and has the inalienable responsibility to maintain the balance. Only, and here lies the crux of Brahma Cakra, objectively (relatively) the way how physical matter is enrolled in this unified creation comes about in two different styles: in Cosmic creation, matter coagulates smoothly along the lines of mass-explosion AND wave-explosion. Therefore, no struggle is involved. In biological creation, matter has to coagulate smoothly with the wave-implosive model, but against mass-implosion. Hence, Ba'ba' says: "Struggle is the essence of life!" Sacred Geometry alone cannot really put this into perspective.
It should become very clear now that jadaspotha is never averted! Hence, the crucial understanding is that the struggle of individual life is the nadir point of an ongoing cosmic struggle against jadaspotha. We could say, the Cosm has "invented life" to make Creation sustainable. This is true, and if we think now, WOW, this is a great responsibility, the answer is YES, it is! We have here a truly scientific basis and description of the ultimate goal of Neo-Humanism.

A Cosmology based upon Microvita

Above summarised, explained how a more advanced view on Brahma Cakra (Sacred Geometry / wave-implosive model) teaches us that, and how life and cosmos are One and physically unseparable. Nevertheless, the traditional view of Brahma Cakra (mass-implosive model) is useful, but easily leads to a rather schizophrenic view on Creation. This schizophrenic model has also been the cause of much controversy regarding microvita. The wave-implosive model shows us that in this universe everything is an expression of Life, and this universe is the place where microvita live.
Hence, the question whether microvita "are" "in" "saincara" or "are" "in" "prati-saincara" is utterly ridiculous. Microvita are an emanation of Cosmic Faculty, and the only place they are "in" is in Creation, or, for that matter, in Brahma Cakra. Microvita exist "on the silver lining between matter and Abstract" [Ba'ba'] which, in the wave-implosive model, translates into: "Microvita organise how natural wave-symmetries and chaotic matter come to an agreement". They do this on any scale. They could organise the formation of a galaxy, and to say that these microvita belong to that galaxy, or to its stars, or atoms is irrelevant. The wave-implosive model facilitates a fully mutually committed importance for all that take part, big or small. The result of this Agreement, negotiated by microvita, equals the Shape of the Cosm = the Shape of Life = the Shape of Success!

In a message dated Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:22:19 +0800, intuition_list@skyinet.net writes:

>
> Subj: Sacret Geometry and the Cascade of Life No 12
> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:22:19 +0800
> From: "Intuition List" <intuition_list@skyinet.net>
> To: "Intuition List" <intuition_list@skyinet.net>
> Sent from the Internet (Details)
>
>
> ___
> Ba'Ba' <||<||
> Post-No.: Intuition List--2002-07-18/164
> Subject.: Sacret Geometry and the Cascade of Life No 12
> > Quote for the Day>
>
> "Popular theology . . . is a massive inconstancy derived from ignorance. . . The gods exist because nature herself has imprinted a conception of them on the minds of men. -- Cicero
>
> SUMMARY> > 1. Mayatiita invites all to review Dans upcoming article and give feedback relative to MV etc.
> 2. Mayatiita starts the ball rooling with a comparative analysis AM MV to Sacred(t) Geometry
> 3. Viveka responds to Shantatma on MV in atoms
>
> Interesting URL: Holographic Universe http://home.flash.net/~russ3/hologram.htm >
>
>
>

> >From: Mayatiita mkroeks@zonnet.nl >

> > Special Request for Proofreading Microvita Article by Dan Winter
> > Dan Winter wrote>
> Please preview (also intuition list if appropriate)
> Microvita
> Part of new article
>
> http://www.goldenmean.info/namesforspirit
>
> I am very open to ways which put a more positive spin on microvita...
> Perhaps I have missed something..
>
> (is anything measureable in microvita
> Can negative microvita mean anything to a scientist..
> Etc...
>
> Thanks for your advance feedback
> Before we share with implosiongroup 4000
>
> Dan
> > Mayatiita writes>
> > Dear Friends,
> since some time I am trying to discuss the microvita theories with Dan Winter. That is, I try to raise his interest for the subject, but he is critical. I lack some fundamental knowledge to attune my conversations so that Dan might see the importance (for him) of accepting microvita theory in his perspective. In many respects he relates it to other exisiting theories, and does not see why it would be a new and better alternative. This is a challenge to all of you, to place microvita theory in such perspective that he, as a scientist, wanting to have things measurable, can work with it. I know you can.
> Recently he wrote a piece where he also includes some things about microvita. He does not yet have had the time to extensively study and read all of Baba's work on microvita, there is little time and much work. He asked me to inform us on the list of his new article and would appreciate it if you could proofread the parts on microvita and give feedback. You can send it to him either directly (lophi618@hotmail.com) or to the list or to Mayatiita (mkroeks@zonnet.nl). I believe that Dan has clues for us we would like to absorb. And I also feel that Ananda Marga can provide certain practical things, noone else can. It is a mutual concomitance...
> Proofreading or any kind of reaction from our side on the subject would be nice not only on the microvita part, but all because it gives some different perspectives on the subject of life.
> I think Dan made a nice try of putting these many ideas in one text and as such is interesting reading and provocative, which is good
> since it stimulates our mind and thinking.
> i can imagine many listmembers having some positive, negative or constructive thoughts on reading this.
> Do not take dans critisism personal but as a co-scientists trying to follow a certain line of inquisition/reasoning
> > love and thanks
> mayatiita
> >
>
>
>

> >From: Mayatiita mkroeks@zonnet.nl >

> > I just made a start and hint at some points comparing and seeing the difference, similarities, in approach, attitude, mentality, etc. may help in resolving the essence, synthesis.
> i hope some of you may add from you perspective (Tiki?)
> Love
> Mayatiita
>
> > COMPARATIVE STUDY
> Dan Winter ­ Sacred Geometry
> P.R. Sarkar ­ Ananda Marga
> > ThemeDan Winter
> Sacred GeometryP.R. Sarkar
> Ananda MargaNote
> EthicsEmbedding, learning to become 'recursive', selfaware, etc.
> To live in such a way that you can become nondestructive and fully embedded and synergetic with life, nature, the Pure Principle of Creation and attain bliss and immortality.'that all may endure the eternal blessedness under the loving shelter of the Lord'
> Ananda Marga = Path of Bliss
> TechniqueKundalini
> Gurdejev movements
> Sacred Dance
> Understanding the Pure Principle
> Scientific measurment and research
> HeartTunerYoga
> Meditation (selfrealisation and social service)
> Kiirtan
> Spiritual/astral hygiene
> Natural Habitat
> Life Food
> Sense of Purpose
> 16 points
> Master Unit
> Sentient Diet
> Ista
> > Critic (on the other)Not scientific, external, idol worship, dogma, astral milkingNot devotional?
> Life essenseLife force, charge imploding wave donut on phi microvita
> My opinionNecessary knowledge for transition period here and now
> Very deep intellectual and heartfelt connection to sourceEternal knowledge, practical. Temporariliy as organsation in decay
> Ultime deep inner connection to all
> HistoricalTraditions of Sacred Geometry schools, Atlantis, EgyptShiva, Krishna, Indian, Tantra
> Lacking?Might tend to be picked up in a traditional non-selfempowering way, as we have been learned by Cristianity,
> No real system, only needs to understand Pure PrincipleVery structured system
> MeasurableExperiential, faith
> Focus on health, science, energyPolitical, cultural, sociological, psychologic
> > > > >
> >
>
>
>

> >From: Viveka Richard@post.pl >

> > Shantatma wrote>
> That's a good one. You have developed a sense of humour since we met last time in Finland [;-)]
> > VIVEKA>
> I wasn't inspired by the Finnish sense of humor until I heard a old Finnish saying that "In Finland, summers are short, but cold." :o)
> > Shantatma wrote>
> There are two ways to solve this apparent problem. First, atoms are created in Saincara and microvita just enter them in Prati-Saincara. I understand this is your hypothesis. Nevertheless, there remains few questions. What is the role of microvita in these atoms?
> > VIVEKA>
> Baba said that the number and types of microvita in a chemical atoms of a chemical compound influence its capacity to act as a fertilizer, for example. But he didn't say why this is so. I proposed that the collective microvita in atoms form ectoplasmic particles. These ectoplasmic particles (cittanu) of different varieties could help develop both the minds as well as physical bodies of plants as well as animals.
> > Shantatma wrote>
> If atoms exist without microvita, what makes the difference between the atoms with and without microvita?
> > VIVEKA>
> One difference is their effects on living protoplasmic beings. But they could also transform one type of atom into a different type, or help create more powerful chemical explosions.
> > Shantatma wrote>
> What is then the forming process what Baba talks when "billions of microvita form a carbon atom"? My Collins English Dictionary defines the word "form" as follows: 1) give a shape to something, and
> 2) give an existence to something.
> > VIVEKA>
> I think that the billions of microvita in carbon atoms modify the form or shape of the carbon atom (and not give existence to the carbon atom, which is created first in saincara and later enters pratisaincara where it is affected by microvita) including its electronic structure so that the atoms can evolve into more complex organic molecules like DNA and RNA.
> > Shantatma wrote>
> I simply believe that atoms cannot exist without microvita.
> > VIVEKA>
> You could be right, but you need some support for your belief if you want others to accept it also. In Neo-ethics of multilateral salvation, Baba says: "Let us consider the case of the structure of a carbon atom. An atom has a nucleus around which electrons revolve. The weight of an atom is decided by the mass of its nucleus. The difference between two atoms is mainly one of nuclear difference. In this respect, the mass of the satellites is of little importance. If the nucleus of an atom is split up, tremendous energy or calories will surely be released. It is true that every protozoic structure is based on carbon atoms. A single microvitum is insufficient to form one carbon atom, but when billions of microvita get solidified, a carbon atom is formed -- generally or naturally of heterogeneous nature, and under special circumstances of homogenous nature.
> > V>
> So in the same paragraph Baba accepts that a carbon atom is composed of a nucleus surrounded by electrons, and states that billions of microvita can solidify to form a carbon atom. The key statement here may be Baba's statement that "A single microvitum is insufficient to form one carbon atom". A single microvitum is much smaller than an electron, as Baba said earlier, so the question of a single microvitum bringing a physical carbon atom into existence does not even arise. Baba can only mean here that a single microvitum has insufficient power to modify the form of a carbon atom, but billions of microvita collectively do have this power.
>
> Shantatma wrote>
> There is another way to explain this by discussing what Baba actually refers to. I believe that there exist somekind of primordial building-block microvita in Saincara and this microvita form atoms.
> > VIVEKA>
> These saincaric microvita, if they exist, would be a fourth type of microvita different from the 3 types that Baba described.
> > These microvita, however, are imperfect in a sense that they will have to travel through the solid phase before they can enter Prati-Saincara.
> > > VIVEKA>
> What would your "imperfect" microvita do in saincara? Inanimate physics does very well without them, so there is no need for them in saincara. Unit life needs much more scientific explanation now than physical matter, although physical theories are always evolving also. And unit lives--microvita as well as protoplasmic lives -- are all in pratisaincara, except for your proposed saincara microvita which fulfill no function until they 'enter pratisaincara'. By Occam's razor I think we can dispense with these saincaric microvita and stick with the 3 types that Baba described.
> > > Shantatma>
> In other words, they get solidified like Baba says. Now the so-called positive and negative microvita which travel through the inferences and affect our minds are clearly the creation of Prati-Saincara.
> > VIVEKA>
> But these microvita (crude microvita which cause diseases) which travel through inferences are the crudest of the 3 levels of microvita that Baba describes:
> > -- Baba: "Krimis live, grow and decay within the scope of the five fundamental factors, whereas the cruder variety of microvita function within the realm of the five inferences."
> > > Shantatma wrote>
> They are more developed than the microvita that form atoms because they can affect minds.
> > VIVEKA>
> The microvita that form and fill atoms also can affect minds as well as bodies, for example in the case of chemical compounds which act as fertilizers due to the microvita contained in their atoms. So these microvita that form and fill atoms are also the crudest microvita (class 1 of Baba's 3 classes of microvita). These billions of microvita in atoms must therefore be carried by the inferential (5FF) waves within these atoms, just like microvita are carried on inferential waves of light and smell from one location to another. The principle of class 1 microvita (the class of crude microvita) travelling on inferential waves is the same in both cases. Class 2 microvita are more subtle and don't travel on inferential (5FF) waves, nor do class 3 microvita (the subtlest microvita).
> > > Shantatma wrote>
> What to speak of Devayoniis, they are even more the creation of Prati-Saincara. The problem is that Baba uses the word "microvita" to refers to many entities. Like Devayoniis, they are microvita but they apparently do not form carbon atoms!
> > VIVEKA>
> It's not a problem when we understand that all microvita have something in common even though there are three main categories of them. And since microvita also evolve, it is likely that the crudest microvita evolve from crude matter in Pratisaincara and the subtler microvita evolve from the cruder microvita also in Pratisaincara.
>
> Shantatma wrote>
> I know that this is a great controversy even amongst the seniormost Acharyas. There are two camps, some believe that microvita are created in Saincara, others that they are created in Prati-Saincara. I believe that this matter just requires more analysis and discussion.
> > VIVEKA>
> Belief is not enough. I hope our discussion is clarifying some of these points. If we can agree here on some key points about microvita and 5FF's based on rational discussion of Baba's writings plus our own thoughts, it will be big progress. Even if a child says something logical, it should be accepted. And even if the lotus-born Brahma' say something illogical about microvita, it should be rejected like a straw.
>
>
>
> Back to top.
> ********************************************************************
> Moderator Note:
> This list is not limited to above areas. Members consist of Engineers,
> Acaryas, Dr.s' of Physics, Math, applied and theoretical Psy, MD's
> and many more. Ask and talk about how Ba'Ba' applies to YOUR area of
> knowledge
> ********************************************************************
> For a friend to Subscribe push "reply to sender" button and attach
> their name. An Invitation will be sent with your name appearing as
> recommending
>
> +------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Intuition List <intuition_list@skyinet.net> > | URL's Intuition List Members Web Pages
> http://members.fortunecity.com/intuitional/intuitionlist/ > (archives)
> | Archive-password: babanam
> | List-Moderator: turiiya <turiiya@skyinet.net>.