from Dan Winter , 11/19/99, url: http://www.goldenmean.info/addiction

see follow up article 2 days later: http://www.goldenmean.info/seemen

other articles listed at: http://www.goldenmean.info/sitemap.html

1/20/00 New links on Sai Baba issue added, bottom here.

This newsletter looks at the relationship between getting the first estatic juice able to pump up the spine, versus addiction and the tendancy to rely on external sources for that pumping including "Guru's." We will use some fairly uncomfortable info about Sai Baba to illustrate the first part. The storal to the mory is the upbeat blessing that instructions in bliss access do come from an awakening worm. (... Pining the Spice.. from Dune.)

We begin with this just in: From: "Audra Design & Mfg. Co." <audra@sedona.net>
To: "Dan Winter" <winter@primeline.com> (I introduced Chaz and Audra who have an alchemical Sacred Jewelry design lab to Pat Flangan, & they now make many pendants for him, the 2nd part of this letter reviewed the usefulness of those).

"Dan, this is the update from Ole in Denmark. What's up with you? Chaz
----- Original Message -----
From: Ole , November 18,

"Dear Chaz,

Your package was received Friday last week. The
designs are awesome and I cant thank you enough for
getting these samples to me! More about that below...

I was not able to write you immediately because of
some problems of DIMENSIONS in my spiritual life right
now.
It seems Dan Winter was after all correct about Sai Baba...
I have recently made contact with some former VIP
devotees from the UK, Sweden and Australia.
They all claim the same independently and there is now
proof coming out that Sai Baba is nothing more than a
simple fraud with no mystical powers and he is having
sexual relationships with some of his young students
in India. The inner circle of his organization is
slowly beginning to crumble, as Sai Baba is no longer
able to keep his paedophile escapades a secret
anymore.
My whole belief system has been shattered to the core
because of this. I was a devotee for almost 13 years
and believed totally he was Avathar - an incarnation
of God. Years ago there were miracles in my family's
home even - materializations of different Sai Baba
related things manifesting before our eyes.. I still
cant believe he is a fraud - so many things have
happened in my life because of him.
Anyway, I am trying to pick up the pieces right now,
so excuse me if I am not up to standard... " end quote(further correspondance on Sai Baba issue at bottom)

--

I forwarded the note to friends Hugh and Carol who among other things, had been conveying to me stories frequently about their very personal friendship with Sai Baba. Hugh has been quite a scholar about the origins of the Draco/Dragon on this planet, and we discussed the up side of having a strong reptilian/worm/orme spine/brain kind of genetic origin. They introduced me to a member of the long royal family/blood of Thailand. They were all comfortable with the hi level of Dragon/Draco worship in that bioregion. I pointed out that the Senshi pyramids of China were reportedly laid out in a template of Alpha Draconis. Only recently did I find out Hancock (of Orion on Giza mapping), devoted his whole latest splashy color book HEAVEN's MIRROR, to proving the royal "Angkor Wat" was in large part simply a map of the star system Draco. Of course he has no meaningful answer to why. Briefly, we may surmise that the An/reptilian family under Innana reposed to that Eastern India/China part of the globe (Orginating most of their "God" legends.), after the nuclear maelstorm of Enki/Enlil desertified the Sinai. (In this regard I also enjoyed bumping in to...." In his groundbreaking book Cosmic Voyage, Courtney Brown, revealed the existence of two extraterrestrial civilizations whose destinies are intertwined with our own." who concludes with some very detailed interventionist notions behind the Reptilian parasitism on our planet.)

A good review of preceding articles about the Dragon blood which was BOTH the high Magdalen AND the Draco vampiric in the Grail bloodline, see http://www.goldenmean.info/blood

So no one in the conversation was apologetic about many reports that Sai Baba when seen clairvoyantly looked just like a giant worm out of DUNE. (The one report that he was a parasitic worm of the An lineage originally assigned to UrANus was unconfirmed.) I tried to explain how large scale harvesting of human glandular juices, uv blue fire aura / ecstatic/sex juice , was the raw material Sai Baba needed for Vibuti production. Hugh and Carol emphasized how millions of Indian children had schools because of Sai Baba; I pointed out that each day they all were required to pour out their worship uv juice to the reigning astral parasite/ guru Sai himself.

Of course their is a possible symbiosis between a reigning borg queen and her hive. And no one here is suggesting we should regard Sai Baba as simply evil in the sense of failing to embed. The question is more what should we learn and strengthen about self empowerment from the millions of person who sought this urge to the flow of guru juice, even if it was vampiric in may ways.

For example, I would not agree with the statement above that Sai had no mystical powers. In fact if you can be the cookie cutter at the nozzle of so many millions of humans sex/uv/worship juice, you DO get to be very powerful. What is so critical that we not be borgs in the river of that blue fire, but instead angels aborning, is that we understand the PRINCIPLE of how that worm becomes self-aware and self-steering. (been trying to get a-'head' for millenia...)

Let us consider how the upper 'bird' brain literally starves for the development of the high pyschokinetic opto holo mapping cortex, if their is no regular nutrient from the snakes mouth, the reptilian brain stem dumping snake venom, kunda juice out the amygdala.

We have discussed elsewhere...(see link list at the bottom of this article) that each living human cell is necessarily programmed to be aware that it has no ability to make regular survival required phone calls home, UNLESS THEIR IS REGULAR ECSTATIC PROCESS/ BLISS! The UV ultraviolet squirt gun up the zipping DNA helix, like kundalini/tantra when sustainably blissful, gets a faster than light wave connection by Phi braiding which allows information communion with aura/soul/collective mind/racial memory.

So each cell knows that it is toast anyway unless a soure of bliss is found. So in a sense, at a cellular level our young people have no choice but to turn to drugs IF THEIR PARENTS DO NOT OFFER THEM BLISS PRODUCING ACTIVITIES / training !!

(examples: sufi dance, eurhythmy, tai chi, sacred gymnastic, sacred circle dance, ... rock concerts with spirit focus? communion of presences - same as capacitive impedance matching for tantra...)

Now let us apply this to WHY the last best source of that sacro cranial PUMPING, is ALWAYS THE BODY'S CELLULAR MEMORY OF WHAT IT IS ADDICTED TO NOW. Whether sex, or roller coasters, or drugs, or dance, or being the visual focus of many people.... what ever last produced the RUSH of phase alignment/ PRESENCE OF MINDFULNESS (wave recursion gone implosive)... THIS WILL NECESSARILY BE THE MOTIVATOR TO MOVE US TO THE NEXT SOURCE OF FOOD FOR THE HIGH BRAIN. ('addiction' if it is EXTERNALLY based).

Simply put, biology is programmed to know, that the only sustainable immortality (wave) occurs when the spine gets the privelege to dump superluminal DNA lightning into larger gravity centroids (making stars like our sun). For those that acheive this inhabit stars. (They have clear visions, as I have heard from MANY, of what it is like to SEE/FEEL thru the eye of the sun.: http://www.goldenmean.info/eyeofthesun ).

Those that don't are recycled into the muddy DNA collective field effect (collective unconscious). Thus this access to the sustained worming thru the faster than light, is the physics of our religious notion of heaven. In fact we literally MEASURE by frequency signature the NUMBER of contained harmonics in the EKG (& presumeably DNA), actually ASCENDS (in phi harmonics). So dimension as access to more superposed spins, is nestable by phylotaxes. Ascention into heaven is physics.. or more accurately: is phy-cycle.

So where did our kids who turned to the gutu thing go wrong. Well, first let me guess, the majority of those who ended up hosing their spine juce to Sai Baba the parasite, would otherwise have NO WAY OF GETTING THEIR SPINE JUICE GOING. In other words, (obviously) those who have had no success in getting tears of bliss into their own life are prime susceptibles to cult and guru worship.

And where do we draw that thin line between the teacher who says, here join this bliss group, vs the teacher who says, feed me your bliss juice. That is the everlovin dance. It is just like the young girl who with her first orgasm unconsciously (& probably romantically usefully) connects access to her OWN BLISS JUICE, with access to the boy who did it with her.

So what have we learned about the fundalmental nature of addiction.

1. It is no more a mistake of mother nature teaching survival than 'imprinting' during a Mother's first hug.

2. That if bliss juice access is not taught, cults and drugs must follow.

3. Tantra/kundalini/bliss ritual is the ultimate SOURCE for all immune systems as these are the soure for the uv spin density which makes the wave foldedness (phase aligning 'focus') we call membrane sustainable.

4. That the river of collective cellular DNA UV lightning going slip knotting out into stars is the prime purpose for the human genetic experiment, in the sense not only is it 'the only way outta here', (Ensoulment as 'Per-sun-all-I-tie'), but it is also 'what people are for' in the galactic metabolism... EMBED...make recursion... stabilize gravity.. you become the STARMAKER eddy among waves. THIS IS the WORM AWAKENING...

So what again did we learn when we found that biofeedback training was the most successful AND empowering solution to addiction on this planet. (2. CLINICAL USE OF RECURSION HARMONICS: http://www.goldenmean.info/clinicrecursion/Clinicr.html , Marty Wuttke, developer of EEG Clinical Practicum to Treat,Addiction- at Institute for Family Wellness, Atlanta - was - Southern Institute of Applied Psychophysiology ...http://www.iffw.org/html/martin.html)

We learned that when the heart brain system learned to fabricate the (eeg/ekg) harmonic ratios (phi), of embedding for themselves, the resultant source of bliss juice was self sustaining. (Sacro Cranially Pumped by Snake Charmer Gland Phonics, nicely picted at: http://www.goldenmean.info/isthisrecursion/apta.html ). And thus using alchohol to deprive the brain of Oxygen to emulate bliss/increase electrical conductivity, was suddenly second fiddle in the body's hunger. It is replaced by the inner ability to BUILD YOUR OWN PHIRE.

Biofeedback to complete the harmonic ladder caddeuceus (phi harmnics) in the alpha/theta etc. of both brain and heart, which produces bliss, should accompany instruction in blissful kinesthetics. This includes, "Infinity Walk", Labyrinth, movement into sacred space/ embedding pattern (Flamenco) etc.

We explored the detailed connection between, USING EXTERNAL SOURCES OF FIRE (caffeine/alchol etc), and how that forces the self-notself membrane to breakdown: This creates MUCOUS, home for Annunaki designer viruses attacking those with no implosion/self-notself barrier.., at:.The Archeo-Geometry of America's Spiritual Destiny (http://www.goldenmean.info/america/index.html,) It is critical to understand why the required inhabiting substrate for the new virals is
mucous and mucosal linings. Mucous is created quite literally when the body gets the self vs not-self barrier ...
The storal to that mory was simple: only the self sustaining fire which comes from within, can make a self not self/membrane. All the rest of muddy barriers/mucous is the perfect home for the designer viruses lo grade interventionist ET's use to prune our genepool (tubercular etc.). Experiment: 3 days without ANY external stimulant - caffeine, alchohol or even sugar /white flour.. then check: a.) your mucous level & b.) your bliss access .

And in reprise about our Guru's. Actually pedophilia is a response to some more simple physics. Spoon bending psychokinesis was measured to be more common during puberty. That is the time when the river of DNA lightning MUST be given a channel, (creative and erotic and dependably blissful) or insanity will result. We must not be intimidated by the fact that the power of this river, urge to bliss, destroys families and lives. It is simple. Deny the river, and you deny life (recursion/embedding) force.

The urge to cult was the urge to bliss. And it does have with it the danger of hive mind, for better or worse. We cannot in one breath condemn cult and hive mind, and in the same breath bless a collective unconscious become conscious. They are the same. Since, only one mind does go home... we only get critical genetic superluminal inertial escape velocity thru the suns heart communally initially, THEN WE MUST ACCEPT THE NEED TO GATHER OUR BLISS PROCESS AROUND ONE SEED. That seed is not a person. (guru). Personne in French means no one. That seed is THE PURE PRINCIPLE OF EMBEDDING (see http://www.goldenmean.info/grail.html ), WHICH ALLOWS MANY (waves) TO BECOME ONE.

dan winter - asheville mountains smokey blue...

--related:

(1. ecstatic psychodynamics & immune heath
THE ROLE OF ECSTATIC PROCESS IN THE HEALTH OF THE IMMUNE SYSTEM,
AND THE TREATMENT OF AIDS and CANCER.
http://www.goldenmean.info/ecstaticprocs/ecstatic.html Size 9k 1999-09-19

2. Nourished By Spin; Twinkling Eyes Lifestyle
... spin can be practiced practically, everyday. The following is some practical advice on
including Ecstatic Process in simple daily life.. First it is important to realize just how
critical regular ecstatic ...
http://www.goldenmean.info/nourishedbyspin/nourishd2.html Size 28k 1999-09-19

3. "EN-JOY": THE PSYCHO-DYNAMICS OF ECSTASY
... last night the impulse was clear. We should look at the various faces or facets of what is
called ecstatic process put in very practical terms. Last night we approached ecstatic
process as we danced and ...
http://www.goldenmean.info/ecstaticdynamics2/ecstatics2.html Size 69k 1999-09-19

5. Honey of the Queens..
... tracheal mite. Requeening prevents natural hive reproduction/swarming. Imagine never
having the ecstatic rush of the vortex of the swarm dance of the bees, around a free queen.
How would your children ...
http://www.goldenmean.info/honey/honey.html Size 15k 1999-09-19

6. Scale Invariant = Perfect Embedding = Gravity = Self Aware
... ecstacy). (Marty also eliminates addiction using the same process, which is simply false
attempt ecstatics). Stand at attention now.   Dan Winter
http://www.goldenmean.info/scaleinvariant/scaleinvariant.html Size 11k 1999-09-19

8. EKG Power Spectra:Does the Heart Become measureably Musical at the moment of Love?

... umbilicus to the soul. Getting this wiring connected without shorts or interference is
called ecstatic process. This puts high frequency ordering we notice as twinkle in the eye,
into the bodies membranes ...
http://www.goldenmean.info/ekgrad/ekgrad3.htm Size 29k 1999-09-19 )

Subject: Re Sai Baba,Fri, 19 Nov , "Rachel" <rachel@livinglightenergies.com>
Hi Dan,

I'm just responding to the first part of your message re gurus, esp. Sai Baba.

Read an interesting book a while ago re the subject - LORD OF THE AIR by
Tal Brooke (1976).

Tal was a devotee of Sai Baba until some sexual encounters took place and he
became disillusioned with his 'master'. In it he talks about Sai Baba's
mystical powers being related to some occult practices. A short quote..."dug
up some unpleasant stuff among the local villagers at Puttaparthi about the
original source of Baba's occult power. Something about an ancient lingam
on a hill."..."But there's another side of this,' I added. There is an occult
aspect about the semen. Check this out. Phil told me that semen is used in
really heavy occult stuff. The vital essence of life or whatever. Phil told me
he suspected that sperm from the Veda school kids, stored for a solar year,
was the source of Baba's power." Apparently, Sai Baba has boarding schools
on his ashram for young boys.

Basically he accuses Baba of being an hermaphrodite, who liked to unzip the
trousers of young men...and then collect their semen in a handkerchief! His
book is quite an eyeopener on someone who is supposed to be an avatar.

He writes, "By this time I was experiencing a new reaction to Baba. I
sensed in his own manner a controlled caution towards me. As he brushed
by, I felt a sweeping nausea within myself, revulsion and a deep indignation
of spirit. It was as though the spirit that inhabited the bright-robed body
was putrid, foul and horrifying.....Baba whirled round in a state of fury,
spewing out words. He knew who it was. His black eyes boiled. 'Rowdie,
complete spoil! Go, get out here...' I have seen this sort of thing crush
people before. But as I looked Baba in the eye nothing earth-shaking
happened; I had not perished, as I half expected. I held my dignity, and
looked at this imposter with an implacable conviction. He had been found
out, his authority over me was gone, and I knew that what resided within his
shell was neither divine nor yet entirely human. Baba spun round and
marched off in a huff, while the onlookers studied me curiously. Wendel
hurried over to question me about the incident. Smiling with relief, I was
hard put to explain my overwhelming sense of release and freedom.......The
enchantment - the spell - under Baba was gone for ever."
--

Subject: heavy sai... follow up?,Fri, 19 Nov

looking for miracles may be the same as the schizophrenia of physicists
who say spirit or mind is separate from matter... waves are different
'stuff' than particles..

needing to believe some waves (us VERSUS them) are
separate/un'law'ful...

From:"Simon Granville" <max@goldrush.com>

Dan:
So now believers can put their lives back together after finding out that Sai Baba is just like everyone else. Unfortuantely, they will shortly find someone else to fill the gap that Sai Baba left, until they learn that they are the creators of their own reality.
The point is not Sai Baba and his sex life the point is the mind of the seeer who creates the Sai Baba in the first place!
Simon
--
Subject:From: Brad Smith <chair@thule.org>, Thule Foundation

Poor guy shouldn't have a "belief" system.

Here's the actual facts on sai baba.
He is a metaphysical magician, using yogic powers to do "tricks".
He uses the sperm of his young devotees (the most volatile metaphysical
substance in the world) to "create" something from apparently nothing.
The sperm can be used like a liquid battery and energy contained
"stored" in another dimension for use later when old sai baby rubs his
fingers and some of that phony gris gris comes a pourin out into the
laps of his expectant dupes (oops I mean devotees).
Simple as that, a charlatan's charlatan.
---
Subject: Re: Gurus&Sex Juice vs PRINCIPLE of Ecstatic Communion ,Fri, 19 Nov , Hitrade@aol.com
gurus-secret pedeophiles connect

i've noticed a connection here esp. since my guru who seemed to possess
the best of true qualites for 10 yrs i followed him turns out to be a
pedophile or at least a wannabe pedeophile.... could this be an ultimate Power trip?? or what you think is the connection..
rgds, darren
---
from maureen h:
~~*+M~*
Hugh has done some very excellent work and I can only hope that Carol
will be not be devastated. Is there definitive proof? First Grandma Devi

and now Sai Baba. What's going on? Sorry if you feel I am butting in but

many of my friends are from many different religions and I would like to

prepare them for what might be forthcoming.
Thank you,
+ Maureen
--

ubject: [K-list] sex juice (was: heavy sai... follow up),Sat, 20 Nov , "percyval" <percyval@att.net>
To: "kundalini-list" <kundalini@List-Server.net>
WARNING: this post contains a frank discussion of male sexuality and
tantra,
so stop here and delete if you might find this offensive...

From: alingimp <alingimp@home.com>
> Apart from this, I don't really see how your recent posts are in any way
> relevant to the main topic of this list, namely K and it's manifestations. I
> thought this list is about K and not about spreading rumours and
> accusations. Even if Sai Baba really were an imposter, I couldn't care less.
> It is up to each individual to follow whoever and whatever they choose, no matter if I share their views or not.

hi Karin,

i agree with you about the many recent posts about Sai being a bit much, and
most of Dan Winter's stuff does not make sense to me, partly because i
rarely understand what he's saying...but i did find that post about gurus
and sex juice to be on topic...the transformative power of semen when
moved
up instead of spurted is the main point of that post, and i have found that
to be a most relevant topic...in some ways, semen can parallel k-flow, when
running internally up the spine to have a transforming affect on the brain
and nervous system, as is often discussed in tantric texts...

this may seem strange coming from a sexual hedonist like myself...as
celibacy is one of the last things that i would ever consider for myself,
but i have recently been experiencing major transformation and ecstasy from
withholding ejaculation...i do this in conjunction with lots of time focused
on sexuality, tantric stimulation, and ejaculationless tantric orgasms...so
to me it is a hyper-sexuality rather than celibacy...

i used to believe that the tantric idea of the semen physically moving into
the brain was only metaphorical, and have read that it is physiologically
impossible...but i have found that after a week of intense tantric
stimulation and ejaculationless orgasms, that if i finally ejaculate, there
is only a very small amount of semen...if i merely abstained from
stimulation without the tantra, i would build up a very large quantity of
semen after a week's time...so where did it all go? i think that the tantric
stimulation got it physically moving up my spine to my brain, although this
is not the only possible explanation...

anyway, my general level of ecstasy/bliss/loving euphoria has increased
drastically over the last few months while i have been doing this... i do
actually have a physical ejaculation about a couple of times a month, so i
haven't found that complete abstinence from them is necessary...this would
compare to my previous norm of having about one a day...but for me, it is
the combination of withholding the ejacualation along with extended orgasms
(often longer than 30 minutes*) that makes the magic...

(* for info on extended sexual orgasms, see Alan and Donna Bauer's book,
"ESO: How You and Your Lover Can Give Each Other Hours of Extended
Sexual
Orgasm"...it's an inexpensive paperback that is carried by amazon.com)

i don't know if this would work for everyone, and i don't really understand
the implications for females, but this new practice of mine has been
transforming me and empowering me in the most incredibly beautiful
way...there are those who consider this to be the "left-handed path"...well,
i'm right-handed, but get a lot less tired by occasionally switching off to
my left... so, i guess that means that i'm "ambisextrous"...*grin*

anyway, i do believe that Dan Winter's purpose in his post was to point
toward the magic inherent in this sex juice by showing how Sai was allegedly
using it, and valuing it...i didn't hear his purpose being to attack him,
but he did get in his jabs in along the way...*grin*...

lovingly,

percyval

---

Subject: Re: [K-list] Gurus&Sex Juice vs PRINCIPLE of Ecstatic Communion, Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:56:12 EST
From:nomadbrit@aol.com,CC: kundalini@List-Server.net

<< I tried to explain how large scale harvestingof human glandular juices, uv blue fire aura / ecstatic/sex juice , was the raw material Sai Baba needed for Vibuti production. >>

I have been aware of this since about 1970 ! There was also a book written
a LONG time ago , I think called " Lords of the Air" in which a devotee told
of Sai Baba "milking him " for his semen, which he then very carefully
wrapped up in a silk handkerchief , if I recall.
Tom.

--

Subject: still sai-ng; not to belabor the point, Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:06:09 -0500
From: dan winter <winter@primeline.com> To: kundalini@List-Server.net

(started to write up:mystress- electrical difference between mucous vs
ecstatic spine juice..
key is star of david shadow of salt in sea water..., if mucous is the
difference between self vs not self, which must be more
conductive....)dan

Subject: still sai-ng; not to belabor the point, but it seemed fair to
pass this on
from Ole (quoted in http://www.goldenmean.info/addiction)

Hello Dan,.

... keen on people knowing ....?? what Sai Baba is up to. Why?
Because there are some dark people here in his
organization in Denmark, who have known about his
activities for years. For this reason, my contact with
David (removed for confidentiality), SB's former right hand man in the
UK,
have been hidden under a false identity, because I
don't want my real indentity exposed yet.

According to the testimony of ______ (he has had more
than 100 interviews with SB in a sapan of 3-4 years)
all of Sai Baba's materializations of ashes/rings etc.
are palmed which is backed up by other recent
independent reports, Sai Baba has NO mystical powers.
Actually, he health is very frail and it has been
reported by sources in the inner circle that he
suffered a heart attack last month. He can hardly walk
since then. He has been sick for a number of years and
is maybe suffering from AIDS. I think your own theory
about SB having mystical powers is quite interesting,
but it contradicts direct testimony of visitors in the
ashram. Here is one of David letters, which have been
posted on the
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/sathyasaibaba
forum,
which have been set up to expose the activities of Sai
Baba.

"thank you for putting the pictures on...
James redmond has the video of swami producing the
white book (which was readily available in the
village at the time...I was there)or so called
original bible. the video shows it in his hand before
he
"pruduced" it.
Paul, if you are going to talk about materializations,
please make it clear that all the stuff is bought and
palmed
My Diamond ring...as swami and the inner circle told
me...... was a cheap stone (value 30 rupees)
and when one of the clasps broke I had the stone
removed to reveal a piece of silver paper underneath
to make it sparkle
The rings that you can see a head in...which people
cannot see clearly but believe it is swami
...because they are 'told' so....are made with a small
piece of silver paper surrounded by a black
piece, or the backing painted black so that at certain
angles you get a reflection of YOUR OWN FACE... and
think it is swami
Also people who have had interviews and have been
given something which has subsequently broken, often,
if they get the chance, ask swami to replace the lost
stone, or broken bracelet or stopped watch...he never
does, he always replaces with another (from the chair)
or his classic trick is to to go out the back room,
out of site..(if you ever get the chance of an
interview and this happens...listen very carefully!)he
opens a drawer and you will hear a tiny chink as he
picks up the next 'materialisation' and then he gets a
robe which he carries in his hand. Everyone is so
excited that someone is getting a swami robe they do
not realize that he is carrying the next
materialization in the hand under the robe...thats how
he gets it into the chair if it is not already there.
He also has two handkerchiefs on the arms of the chair
and he often will palm stuff under one of the
handkerchiefs until needed when he has an urgent need
to wipe his face..surprise surprise, and then
gets the ring or whatever into his hand again to trick
the next person......"

I would ask if you would send the email address of
your friends Hugh and Carol, as I wish to learn the
details of their very personal friendship with Sai
Baba. Tell them about the Yahoo forum (that goes for
the others who responded to the newsletter about Sai
Baba).
Are these the people who have seen Sai Baba
clairvoyantly???

From: Tony O'Clery <aoclery@yahoo.com>

Namaste All,

Mystress Angelique wrote:->Really, accusing Sai Baba
of being a pedophile is just such a cliche
smear tactic that I am doubtful that these stores are
true. He doesn't
need
to collect the sperm of boys for power, 20 million
devotees is all the
power anybody needs.
I think it's the same with Grandma Devi. Whether the
stories are true
or
not, they are gossip, and I prefer to open my
intuition and make my own
opinions of people rather than believe what may be
malicous slander<
promoted by an envious mind.<

reply from tony:

Angelique, I thought like that also in the beginning
and fiercely opposed these guys, bluntly and rudely.
It is still on the yahoo site in my early posts,
tantric healing excuses etc, but after researching for
myself, I had to admit the Truth. Watching the sleight
of hand on some videos was one thing, but it indicates
dishonesty in a man who claims to be an avatar/God on
earth etc.

With regard to the sexual stuff; I personally know
some of the people making these assertions, and found
them trustworthy. I reserved all my decisions on this
until I heard from Larsson. He being such a big name
in Europe, and of high character and stature. If he
said it was so then I knew for sure it was.
Coincidentally I received emails from another source
that corroborated the story of the Swedish boy, so I
knew it was true. I also received other emails
pointing to the same thing.I was pretty well known on
Sai internet circles, unfortunately better known now!

The point about what is morality? Well Wim, Sai Baba
knows the morality of his devotees and he also knows
what he teaches in his writings, or whoever writes for
him.

I also know a little of the Tantra and pulling weenies
isn't in the book!!!! Rubbing in the cocyx area may be
or underneath, energising etc perhaps. There may even
be sexual intercourse without any attachment at all
and no ejaculation by the male. This is heterosexual
please note.

Sai Baba is not doing anything like this, oral sex
between same sexes isn't in the book either. It
usually has to be a male/female union of Sakti thing,
it is not just about raising kundalini as such. He is
just gratifying his desires that's all. Which means he
cannot be who he says he is, a realised avatar in
constant nirvikalpa samadhi. If he has but one desire,
even if it is to trick he is not realised, therefore
the whole thing is a sham.

Only one phony materialisation puts a lie on the whole
thing. I was with him for 15 years and spent time on
the ashram etc. He is a powerful astral being
collecting souls that's what!!!!!!

I know usually this kind of accusation is the first
one people levy but in this case many have gone to the
extent of preparing affidavits and he will be served
if he ever comes to the West. Check out these
urls....

http://eslvcr.fireplug.net/bcskeptics/sbmir/db-book.html

It is a guy called Beyerstein it was part of my
overall research.

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/sathyasaibaba I
have a lot of stuff here!

Http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/escapesai1.htm

http://members.xoom.com/aoclery/kidsinsai.htm

http://www.sokaren.se/INDEX135.HTML

http://www.nhne.com/specialreports/srsaibaba.html

http://vclass.mtsac.edu:940/dlane/saidebates.htm

http://www.indian-skeptic.de/html/index.htm

http://skepdic.com/truebeliever.html

http://www.goldenmean.info/seemen/index.html (NEXT ARTICLE IN DAN WINTER..series)

Om Namah Sivaya..Tony.